
So many people have recently asked me why I left Harvest Bible Chapel when I did.
I attended Harvest Bible Chapel for over 8 years and served as the Women’s Ministry Director at the Rolling Meadows campus for three of those years (that’s the flagship original campus by the way). I left the church 4 years ago, the week after 3 elders were publicly ex-communicated on a cheap home made movie not worthy of one wasted second of the worship service.
By then there were so many small things that weren’t so small and added up to big things that could have explained my leaving, but to me, that video was the tipping point.
Mind you, I didn’t simply walk out. The day I watched the video, I emailed my campus pastor and asked for an explanation. I was brushed off. I then called an elder who was a friend and someone I trusted. He did the same. So I called one of the elders in the video and got his side of the story. I am ashamed to say that after being a member at Harvest for 8 years, that was the first real conversation I had had with an elder about the state of affairs of the church at that time.
A year or so before leaving Harvest I had written a blog post about holiness in which I had referenced the growing fad of tattoos in our culture. I hadn’t realized that James had gotten a tattoo that week. My blog had indirectly undermined James. As a result, I was asked to meet with the elders, pull the blog piece and write a new one that James would first approve. James ended up sending me a copy of the new approved blog post, and out of fear, I complied. I didn’t want to be rebellious against authority. I also managed to write an apology to James for the pain I had caused him. I regret staying at Harvest after that meeting with the elders. I should have left that week, but I was too afraid to cause damage to Jesus and His kingdom and the women I was leading at that time.
By the time I left, I had discovered something dark about myself: I was a woman ruled by fear. I didn’t want to upset James. I didn’t want to risk any negative impacts on my own growing ministry. My first two books were scheduled to be released smack in the middle of that summer, and I didn’t want to impact their potential – not to mention that James had agreed to write the forward on my first book. Still, even I knew when enough was enough.
There is no question in my mind that what I did see and experience increasingly at Harvest was a culture that functioned and was sustained by fear and the desire to please James at any cost. The higher the leadership level was, the more protective of James they were. I was counted as one of the privileged ones and considered it a great honor to know James personally and even be considered as part of his inner circle at that time.
The more I think about the demise of Harvest Bible Chapel and James MacDonald, the more I believe that fear is the cancer at the root of it all – specifically the fear of James MacDonald. I did not fear God as much as I feared James and longed for his approval.
Until recently, I thought I had escaped my fear by leaving Harvest, but I was still afraid. Perhaps my fear had its legitimate reasons. I still had friends on the inside that I longed to remain friends with. With my life and schedule, my friends are few and far between, and have always been aware that my saying anything publicly about Harvest or James would jeopardize those friendships that I still love and value so much.
After leaving Harvest no one from the church reached out to me to see how I was doing, to ask why I left. Were they afraid? Were they unaware of what was happening behind the scenes? Did they not find that video shocking? Yet their silence hurt me and sometimes made me question the validity of my reasons for leaving. I wondered where God was in the narrative. I kept thinking people would wake up and see the truth and understand that my leaving was not a betrayal to James but a stance against his leadership style, and the leadership style of the XLT, and James’ sons, and most of the remaining elders.
I was wrong in hindsight. Leaving without speaking up was still an act of cowardice and self-preservation.
I regret my own weaknesses, my love for the approval of others. But as every Christian knows, we walk and we live by grace. Christ’s grace saves us and sustains us.
I have wondered if Harvest Bible Chapel (the organization) is worth the cost it’s taken to try and save it? Will James not wake up and realize that the Church of Jesus Christ is not the organization or nonprofits we create, but the men and women that God calls and saves by the sacrifice of His Son? We are the Church! When the Church becomes the organization instead of the people, then it ceases to be the Church.
The Church of Jesus Christ is not the organization or nonprofits we create, but the men and women that God calls and saves by the sacrifice of His Son. We are the Church! When the Church becomes the organization instead of the people, then it ceases to be the Church.
Many might wonder why it all still matters to me so much. I have since moved on and seen God do some pretty amazing God-sized miracles in my life and ministry (evidently, God does work outside of the walls of Harvest Bible Chapel!).
Yet a week ago I posted on FB an invitation to open my house to anyone who needed to talk about their pain as it related to what was happening at Harvest. That night changed me. While only a handful showed up, the range of their pain was wide. Some women were still in the middle of the trauma and were still currently attending Harvest. Others had old wounds that had resurfaced and were hurting, having never felt closure to their stories. For years, they had been made to feel like the outcasts, but finally vindication in its godly form was working its way out. And still some came because their loved ones and spouses have abandoned the faith completely and now refuse to go to church – and they long to understand why.
While regret can’t look back, we now live in a different era than we did four years ago. God is purifying His Church. Hidden things have come to light. Christ followers are saying enough. We won’t let fear overcome the freedom we’ve been given in Christ. And I won’t stand in the way of Christ’s work.
The current leadership at Harvest Bible Chapel including Luke and Landon and Rick and Mo and Jeff and the CFO are infected by the cancer of fear and control. This cancer must be excised and as often as is the case in cancer treatment, months of treatment must be involved for health to take place. While I have no say in the future of Harvest, it is ridiculous to think that any healthy future can take place until the cancer is removed.
We are taught in God’s Word that it is Christ’s love that ought to control us. I pray that moving forward, His love will control me no matter the consequences. I pray that no stench of fear be found in any space occupied by Christ’s love.
The confidence I hang on to today is that whether I am approved or critiqued for this opinion, it is Christ’s love that will catch me and his arms that will continue to sustain me when I close my eyes at the end of each new day.
Grace and Peace.
Lina
I am surprised by your editorial on Harvest. The surprise is not Harvest, but that you publicly hung them.
Lina, you are strong and your faith in the Lord is inspiring. Goodthat you let a toxic place. I love you and our Lird.
Now you can stop going to church altogether and free your mind from religious delusion
Ken Morgan – so you continue to deny the evidence for a creator by your “superior intellect” ? Superior to whom? Sounds like your faith in self is overwhelming only yourself!
Exactly what is going through my head
Lina isn’t hanging Harvest Bible Chapel. James MacDonald and the leaders of HBC did that with their own hands, hearts, & minds.
You are completely right on! Lina is right on. I was so dissappointed to hear that she left. I was too afraid to ask her why. I saw the horrible video of the three Elders that were fired, It was autrocious! I am so glad Lina has spoken up. I hope to become braver
Amen to that. This woman sounds sincere. The church is to be a living organism for the cause of Christ and no other. I pray to our Father who loves us all that His truth and reconciliation and peace, healing abounds in this circumstance.
Just reading this and thankful for Lina’s courage to speak out. I was saved in 2008 and would listen to James on radio while waiting to pick up daughter from high school and many times had to shut down because of his screaming. I started to wonder if God was in this because of angry tones.
Dr. Lina,
I so agree with your ‘cancer’ analogy as it relates to Harvest. I’m a prostate cancer survivor and had radical prostatectomy in 2005. I’ve been in the medical field for over 40 years and know a thing or two about human anatomy. I asked my surgeon why the procedure is called ‘radical’, he replied that even the seminal vesicles have to be removed along with the prostate, otherwise the cancer may return! I wasn’t happy with that but it had to be done! As a former elder for three years at the Elgin campus ( it wasn’t a true elder board then and it still isn’t now ), I couldn’t agree with you more, that all the infected parts have to excised! These same elders that all of a sudden had the courage to fire James, ( which I think is a scam, this was orchestrated )are the same elders that approved that stupid video with those four scum bag elders ‘excommunicating’ other elders! These are the same elders that ‘signed off’ on James filing the law suit against the Ryan Mahoney and his wife, Scott Bryant and his wife, and Julie Roys! These are the same elders that ‘approved’ this same law suit to be dropped when James and co. knew that they would have to open all the books and all the dirt would come out! These are the same elders who signed the letter of ‘unconditional’ support for James, and then they fire him? Really? They all need to be excised ( fired ), along with number one enabler extraordinaire of James, Rick Donald, along with the MacDonald boys, along with every single campus pastor and the other pastors, and throw in the worship leaders ( they are all complicit ), then the cancer would have been completely removed and the body ( the good people of Harvest that are being fleeced ) would have a chance to heal and become part of a true biblical church. Thank you for your story Dr. Lina, and thank you for shedding light on your fears, and your full confidence in the Lord at the end of the day.
Wow. Unreal as I went to Harvest for over 7 yrs and this whole situation has hurt so many people. I haven’t seen the video but abuse of power at any level is sickening!!
I have seen this in many independent “ churches.”THIs was done to me at a similar setting.The “ pastor” One of things his way or the highway and there was no disagreement because he said it was leading to anarchy. The question is with independent churches who did they answer to? I left for the Truth of Orthodoxy!
Someday, Fred, when you grow a spine, you need to come to me and beg my forgiveness for the unbiblical excommunication you were a part of in my situation. Until then, you are still a wolf in sheeps clothing. None of the perpetrators of hate and satanism have fully repented, including James, his despicable henchmen and the elders. I work every day to be rid of my anger and thank you for proving that church is an unsafe place filled with predictors such as yourself seeking to tear down. You are a fraud and a liar!
Wow Nancy K, after all that has been said and done, seemingly over many years, it is startling to me that you would make such a commemt…Wow
Why? It IS her truth…
And the truth of many at Harvest. The environment is as ahw stated, fear James, make James happy…
I left Harvest CL 3 yrs ago after being forced out of a ministry and other things…part of the membership indoctrination…you are not allowed to say anything disparaging against church leadership or the church. All that leads to ia where we are…
I led worship in a church for 5 years. The Pastor started teaching on obeying your authority and not questioning authority etc. then the sermons and teaching were getting distorted and weird. I questioned a particular sermon that clearly was unbiblical but no one else did. Long story short he kicked my husband and I out of the church. He told me that I would be cursed for questioning his authority and God would punish me. It was so hard not to be bitter, and it took a long time to want to be part of another church and not be so cautious. It’s hard to step out alone but God always protects and brings darkness into the light to be seen. God bless
So are you saying that there is mind control of the underling staff and of the rank and file members going on at HBC?
There are always two sides to every story not really believing your story and if someone is a Christian you would talk about this with some Church leaders not blow it all out in public it’s sad that it was done that way that isn’t what a Christian would do it is what a secular person would do
I believe you are mistaken. It is a biblical teaching that unrepentant public sin in a public representative of God ((ie, pastors and elders) must be publicly rebuked for the sake of the church as a whole. If you read the history and understand the public record of offenses at Harvest (with many more than the requisite two or three witnesses), you will understand why this is not only completely justified, but actually necessary to the restoration of healing and good order to Christ’s Body.
1 Timothy 5:20
But those elders who are sinning you are to reprove before everyone, so that the others may take warning.
Ezekiel 22:27
Her princes within her are like wolves tearing the prey, by shedding blood and destroying lives in order to get dishonest gain.
Matthew 7:15
Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
@Julie Smith Are you wanting a cover-up?
I never attended HBC except for the one time when we visited several years ago and had to sit out in the foyer as the music was blasted out too loud.
It is a shame to Christianity what is happening here. My coworker who was Catholic and going through a painful divorce, was led to Christ by me. Then God led him to Harvest Bible Chapel. Now he is disillusioned and wants to go back to Catholicism. He stopped going to any church and says he has lost faith in everything. He says he gave about $1K in these 6 months, and regrets it. He is angry that they keep on sending texts and emails asking for money.
I really doubt they’re sending texts and emails asking for money.
He clearly told me that they send out reminders to give. He unsubscribed from the emails but they were still sent him texts asking him to give.
Are you ‘straining at a gnat but swallowing a camel’?
A new believer has lost faith because of the shameful behavior of HBC leadership and all you can say is question the new believer’s truthfulness of his account?
I am sorry I am so late to discover this article but I had to respond to this comment. What you are talking about is protecting abusers at the expense of those they have abused and betrayed which, unfortunately, happens far too often. I’m very certain you do not understand narcissists and how manipulative they are – I recommend Dr. Ramani on YouTube as she is a great resource to gain understanding – but the only chance to fight their evil is to bring it out into the light, expose them for what they truly are. And even then, it often doesn’t work because so many remain enthralled with the narcissist, or have tied their fortunes to them, that they simply can’t or won’t see the truth. Or they, too, are so rotten at the core that they don’t care…
Lina,
The reason there are spiritual Pol Pots that number in the thousands like our friend James McDonald is because men are happy to give themselves authority.
No church outside of the One True Church Christ began was given His authority to act on their own. In fact, even though there is no patents or rights given to the Bible every man-made church that has plagiarized, promoted or used the Bible without the expressed consent of Jesus Himself or the authority of His church begin their ministries as thieves.
I will not blame those who suffer spiritual starvation for wolves like the James McDonalds, Joel Olsteens or Creflo Dollars (to name but a few), however designer churches and their false teachers are the direct results of people who refuse to be obedient and submissive to God’s will.
She has a right to expose. But a true Christian focuses on Christ and His Word. Church is of the world. While Harvest the pastor there for years had some good preaching. The problem was not so much the pastor but the members that lived worldly. We can be humans and love. Jesus taught eternal love. We need to trust Him.
I too visited Harvest. It was engaging at times. Dull other times. The small adult group was fun visited Moody church. Yet Jesus was not the mission even though the pastor spoke of Jesus. Again I don’t blame James MacDonald. He just got into the worlds standards for a preacher. I was always greeted with a kiss by a cute missionary girl that went there. The church was growing at the time. Now it’s a big business with Harvest all over the states. They have gone the deep end of the pool. Check out Moreno’ website, http://www.godsonlygospel.com
Nancy You sound like you still attend there…and you seem double minded. Your two posts make no sense I hope you get some sense and realize people in Church are not infallible only Jesus!
Lina, given your vast experience, It is ironic that the experience at Harvest should be seen as a culture of fear. I do believe you. I think that this message has relevance to many situations today, including the present political situation. Specifically, I do mean the Machiavellian rule by fear and division that we are seeing. You have every right to speak up; and I respect you for doing so.
I don’t appreciate you getting political – this has nothing to do with it.. Are you referring to the Democratic Party? If so I’d be in agreement but again- this is not a political post. Not everything needs to be about Polititcs. Sheesh
Nicole, I am sorry if you are offended. I will not address any party affiliation. I will only say that if it is right and important to address a culture of fear within the church, it is equally important to address the same for our country. Politics and religion have a great affect on society, and both must be monitored to protect the people. Fear is never a godly way of governing.
Pastor James made it political when he compared the era of President Trump to the era of Stalin the era of Hitler. Walked out of that service. Everyone sat still as if he mentioned chocolate milk.
This post reminds me of something that happened at my former church. I should have walked out but, I too, was afraid.
These things happen in small churches too. We left a church where the pastor specifically told me, “I am in charge!” He said this while glaring at me and enunciating each word. Others, too, could see the attitude. Most continue to stay there, as their numbers dwindle. Others wised up and slowly left. There were other things that caused us to leave also. It took months to get over the hurt he caused my husband and I. We did not want to cause a split or damage the cause of Christ, so we quietly left. We talked with two deacons and the assistant pastor. The message we received was they were sorry we felt that way and they were sure it was not his intention. They made excuses for him. After leaving, others came to us, with similar stories of why they left or quit being involved. It is so sad when the devil works to cause problems in a church. We never gave up on God because He never gives up on us. Finally, we have landed at a church with a passion for others, our hearts have healed and by going there I was introduced to your bible study “Resolved.” It completed my healing. Thank you for all you do. I will pray for healing in the hearts and lives of those affected by this tragedy. The devil may win some battles, but we know God ultimately wins the war.
I totally agree with you Patti. The small church that I and my family left was a textbook case in spiritual abuse. A book called the Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse really helped me and my wife to recover from our experience of confronting the pastor and then leaving the church. We confronted him basically because of the way he had attacked a youth at the time and his mother for bringing up how the pastor was making this youth to feel. Constantly made to feel stupid, the youth had had enough so the mom called a meeting with the pastor. The pastor took the opportunity to lay into them and basically tell him that he was the one in the wrong. Attempts to reconcile the situation failed due to the pastor believing he had done nothing wrong. He kept going back to “you disobeyed the pastor” so you’re wrong (me in this case for talking to the youth and his mom about it after it happened). He kept telling me that I didn’t understand authority and I was in rebellion. Authority? What are you authorized to do? Yell and bully and make people feel like second class Christians? Hmm. Don’t find that in the Bible.
In any case, we had a final meeting with the pastor and his assistant pastor (who was his son-in-law) to tell them that I was leaving their church. Pastor was not happy and tried to convince us that we were wrong. They never acknowledged that they had done anything wrong. The assistant pastor just tried to deflect and justify the pastor’s actions. Gosh, so many similarities with the HBC action. He (the pastor) basically told us we would never work in ministry (volunteer or vocationally) because we didn’t understand biblical authority. Well, that same year, my wife was hired as the children’s pastor at the church we had been volunteering at on Wednesday nights (because our church had nothing going on) and I myself have been ordained as a deacon and have even had the privilege to preach on a Sunday morning. I volunteer in the children’s ministry and the youth ministry as well, pouring into children and youth. This pastor couldn’t have been more wrong. In fact, he is the one who is no longer pastoring.
God is good and He will use those who make themselves available to Him.
In any case, I’m saddened to hear that this happened to James McDonald. I loved his book Vertical Church. Just goes to show, pride goeth before a fall. God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. I pray that God will heal those hurt by him and his abuse of authority. The fallout has only just begun. I speak as one who has gone thru it, like you. But if they submit to the Healer, they will come out stronger. May the God of all comfort minister his comfort to them.
This did not “happen” to James, he did this, by sinning repeatedly. He bullied his way into being paid multiple times for the work he was hired to so as the pastor, sermons and bible teaching. 1st at services, then recording those messages fir walk in the word and finally by publishing them. All why surrounding himself w/yes men.
*Strong Bad: Just for the record, in all kindness – Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall. (Proverbs 16:18)
This comment to Harvest and James is your opinion and you have every right to it. However why now? Why kick him and the church while their down Lina? Seriously? God has this situation in his hands he wasn’t surprised by it. Life goes on people repent and grace is for everyone. I’m disappointed in your timing. He’s my brother in Christ. Be kind not hurtful. Your truth was not conceived in fasting or deep prayer and it sure isn’t loving.
And your part of the problem. The kindest thing one can do is to cut out and expose the cancer to death. She did a awesome job as the judgment of God has come to his house.
You’re
I would recommend A book Joy Starts Here and The Pandora Problem – Facing Narcissism in Leaders & Ourselves as helpful to possibly understand how what’s happened can be explained and perhaps bring healing and prevention as members move forward. www. DeeperWalkInternational.org
Nellie, I’m sorry for your comment. I’m sorry that the doctrine that you’ve been taught says that life is about being kind and nice, rather than about being good.
Jesus calls us to be GOOD. Sometimes being good will also mean being nice, but sometimes it will not. Sometimes being good will require us to say harsh things.
Why? Because ultimately what God wants is not a huge army of women who are nice. He wants a huge army of women indwelled with the Holy Spirit to point people to Christ. Different situations require different things. Sometimes they will require being nice. But often they require speaking up when injustice is done.
Read the Old Testament. God’s heart, over and over again, is for those who are oppressed. It is not with the powerful; it is those whom the powerful make to feel like they’re nothing. It is those who live in fear. That is who God truly cares about.
When we try to protect those in power instead of those who are hurting, we are not doing the work of God.
I’d encourage you to read the prophets again, and ask, “what upsets the heart of God?” And then maybe it’s time to ask whether those things should upset you as well.
Thank you for saying this, Sheila.
Love to you, Lina.
I appreciate the Biblical distinction you made Sheila, in relation to the Bible calling us to be good ; which doesn’t always mean being kind and nice. Lina did try to have a conversation with the Elders before she left Harvest. She has admitted that she didn’t speak up enough at the time. There are times in our lives and circumstances that it’s just not real clear as to how to address something, with as little harm to what is good, as possible. I believe Lina did do the best she could at the time. The practice of medicine is not an exact science; neither is navigating very tough and painful circumstances such as this. God the Holy Spirit wanted Lina to speak more specifically at this time; and she did. She was obedient to Christ. In addition, what was shared now, may have been heard better now, then it would have been heard before Lina left Harvest. Maybe people could handle hearing it better now than then. This is an extra difficult time for the members and regular attenders of Harvest Bible Chapel. I have great empathy and sensitivity toward them. I have never attended Harvest. I am aware that there has been some very good ministry done through this church. Jesus is still the great healer and restorer. We don’t know if He will allow Harvest not to crumble. I pray that the sincere, Christ honoring followers humbly seek Him and His will for them individually in relation to this circumstance, in addition to His will for the church as a whole. Jesus may be truly calling people to stay, and rebuild Harvest Bible Chapel.
Agreed Sheila. Thank you. Also Thank you Lina for having the courage to say something now. I am sorry that you experienced this fear. We are to fear God not man. I am excited for all God is doing in your life to help other women get closer in their relationship with Jesus.
God’s hand is on Harvest and the dark is continuing to be shown. As God’s word says it would. God’s timing is always perfect. Yes, there are a lot of hurting people at Harvest. May Our Lord guide all of us and May His will be done above all else. In Jesus precious name. Amen.
Thank you and thank Lina. It’s very important that people share their stories. Those who would shame someone for standing on the side of truth and grace have missed the mark. Lina’s testimoney is encouraging. Many are in or have been in denial. God help those who can’t see their need to be set free or judge those who’ve found it in Christ Jesus. God bless you.
Nellie-What you might not know. Is many people for years have tried to bring things to light privately. Many people went to leaders and spoke up. Many were intimidated, called names, called subversives. Many were kicked out and shown the door. She is not trying to kick him while he is down. You must not feel sorry for James. He is not being bullied. It is finally the truth coming to light from his own actions and the people who protected him for years. From elders (Dave Corning, Jon Gaus, The Elephant Debt etc) to nobodies one by one we were all ignored and in many cases bullied. Our family was kicked out of our church plant campus and everyone at the church was told not to talk to us because we were disobedient by speaking out against the things were were seeing. And this was all the way back in 2012). The reason why people are coming out now or again is because finally due to being outed on a National Radio program something is finally being done. It is a cry to the current leadership, to evangelicalism at large that there are some very serious problems that need to be dealt with.
We’re you bullied by those elders named? Or were you saying they were bullied too. I used to go to a church in AZ pastored by Jon Gaus. He was a very good speaker and teacher of the Bible but was forced to resign from our church a few years back. The whole ordeal was very strange.
Well said sheila God bless you
Like you, Lina, I’ve listened to people wounded by sin, power grabs and wrongdoing by Church leaders. My experience was decades ago and in another state. I’ve never been able to foster the same level of trust – and that’s the residual I wrestle with. One thing that has helped is recognizing seasons. The Jews’ ebb and flow toward God followed a pattern. Persecution or hardship drew them close. In eras of prosperity, their hearts drifted. Often it was the leadership that lost track and influenced the group. Why would we be any different? That’s what happens to us as individuals and us as a collection of people. At the moment we’re seeing the effects of a down cycle away from God. As a nation, something painful will bring us back. Count on it.
I think that was beautifully stated. Lean should read it and reply in kind.
Also note how the apostle Paul called out Peter publicly when Peter was indulging in hypocrisy! (Galatians 2:11-21)
And in 1 Corinthians 5, we are told to judge those within the Church…)
AMEN!
Thanks Sheila. So great to see your support with your wise comment. I enjoy both of you Christian ladies for the different gifts you both bring. Leba and Sheila- Keep on being brave- it encourages me to do the same!
*Lena!
Sheila, we are not called to be good, we are called to be HOLY! Our good is like the filthy rags of the leper!
How do you know it wasn’t done with fasting and with prayer? We are conditioned to believe that leaving silently is what’s best for the church and in some cases that’s true. But when it happens for reasons like this we should be shouting it but unfortunately we don’t always perceive the abuse for what it was/is until we are out of the situation. And then unfortunately when we do speak up we get comments like yours saying why now…it seems Christians can’t win either way. Thankful for her thoughtful response and I agree with you that God knows all of this and isn’t surprised by any of it – including the timing of her response.
Amen. How do you know it was abuse?
Nellie,
Please anchor in on John 7:24. We can’t judge the HEART of others, we can judge their actions and behaviors. That’s the point and issue with what was and is going on at Harvest. Hence the Response Statement Regarding Pastor James and Anne Green yesterday on HBC “in the news”. Perhaps the Holy Spirit prompted Lina to share from the HEART. Yes Nellie, we are called to bring light on the darkness. Why now does not matter. What matters is truth be told. Romans 16: 17-20
Thank you for your kind response.
I agree here. The timing of this article makes you less credible. Not cool to kick people when they are down. So your opinion is to fire everybody? Do you realize the elders are already choosing to step down? Did you realize the pastors publicly said sorry last weekend? Did you realize elders and pastors are personally apologizing g to people? Do you read the elder updates? Go to the all church meetings? Is this an informed opinion? I am airing on the side of no.
hi liz, not really looking for a vote here. this isn’t meant to hurt you but to support those who need it. for what it’s worth, the timing of the writing is His perfect timing. blessings.
Lina … I couldn’t agree more with everything you said and your comment here. The Bible even says “Truth shall set you free.” You’re sharing your story and I think those who have been hurt by HBC (including me) needs to hear these stories. It isn’t about timing. It’s about the hurting. I think God has not lifted the veil on a lot of eyes for some reason. But He is in control of everything and if He wants HBC to continue, it will continue. But the truth needs to be out there. Doesn’t matter how long ago it happened either. When God led me to leave HBC, I remember being so sad and afraid and wondering if I was hearing Him correctly. I just knew I wasn’t supposed to be there anymore. Hearing these stories has helped me to realize I left just when I was supposed to. I have nothing bad to say about Harvest. It’s where I was led to Christ. However, James is not the same person he was when he began that church and if he was to continue leading it, he would hurt countless others. Our focus should be on Christ and Christ alone, not James MacDonald. We are to find our faith and hope in the Message, not the messenger. Thank you for having the courage to write what you did and for your ministry Lina. It truly is the Lord’s work.
Well said Lina, well said.
Thank you for your honestly, I personally did not ask why you left, because we left approximately the same time for the same reasons. I still hold fast to the hope he will take all this to Jesus. As were you, we were grieving and had to pray for help finding that new church. You did the right thing and I believe more will step up not to dishonor James, but noticing how much the church has changed. Praying for you, many blessings for all you do
Amen Sister! God’s Timing Is ALWAYS Perfect!
REALLY !! Another blind believer. When you are in a position where fear dictates the position you cannot speak out while under that. Even when you get away that fear doesn’t leave just because you physically left. Wake up this tragedy has been in the works a long time.
This is the right time as the judgment of God has come to his people. Open your eyes and feel the heat of the refiners fire. The evil at Harvest is a nasty stage four cancer yet has invaded the entire body. The only hope is to totally exposed and excise it so that all will not be consumed. This young lady has done the work and is doing the work of the great physician. This is the mercy and grace of God.
Preach!!!!!!
I asked for an apology and got silence.
Nellie, be very, very careful! The issue here is not TIMING or kicking someone when they’re down it’s about exposing ungodly, cowardly behavior and making people aware of its existence. DON’T defend these people in any way!! If the church treated Lina this way, they will do it to you and others without a second thought. Letting you know about this is one of the most loving things that Lina can do at this time so that others don’t experience the pain that she went through. Thank you for sharing your story, Lina. God bless you.
It is loving to tell the truth. God loves truth. Truth is healthy. Truth heals. There is NEVER a healthy or spiritual reason for suppressing truth.
Because it is time for this cult to be exposed and she is telling her story. How dare you question her about ‘why?’ Why? Because she is helping expose evil and proving that is is deep and wide and on going. She will be one of many many many many who come forward so if you don’t like it, don’t read. If you like harvest and the culture of hidden abuse and The narcissistic system in order there- by all means, stay! But don’t shame others who speak up.
WHY NOW??? Because Jeff is still lying to people’s faces with a smug grin as recently as Saturday night. He stood and told me and my husband he was naive to the Paxton Singer situation. Then, not ten minutes later Mike Dunswood told us the Elders were told ( presumably by the XLT, which included Jeff Donaldson) all parents were notified about Paxton Singer and his sexpoitation issue in Jan 2018. That IS A LIE!! Mike was genuinely shocked when we told him our son had Paxton as a camp counselor for whole week at Camp Harvest and we never received notice as HBC falsely told Daily Herald. This is why NOW. Because these “leaders” will continue this false deceitful way of life that flows from them so seamlessly, so easily, and with such persuasiveness. Others will be hurt…it is a matter of time. If you know anything about abusive relationships…HBC is in the honeymoon phase right now….look it up!! Like in Ezekiel, many people are trying to sound the trumpet of warning!! When someone lies with such ease , that is pathological, and they must be removed from their positions!!
Nellie, you know what Lina went through in prep for this how? How are you so sure she didn’t pray about this?
What she shared was the kindest message I have ever seen. Brave. There is no timing to sharing pain. If you know anything about abuse it can take years to come forward. To heal enough to communicate and receiving shaming comments like yours. No shame here for Lina. You are courageous and your words bring healing
She did not claim it was ” her trurh ,” but opinion. She is sharing her heart and personal experience in an open, vulnerable way, in kindness and love. Love for God, relationships, and the church.
Lina has every right to speak her truth . Nothing will change at Harvest if the cancer of fear is not exposed . I am sure that was very hard for her to share . How about some GRACE !!!
I am so proud of Lina and she is speaking out the words that I would never say because I live in fear of that kind of authority. She put words to my feelings and I am truly blessed by them. Thank you Lina for your honesty and boldness… and ultimately helping me put words to what I have been experiencing through the preaching of James.
I don’t see anything mean in her commentary. She approached this with sensitivity, wisdom and grace. She is free to speak of her experience, nothing mean about that.
Amen sister!! I am so happy that finally people are standing up and talk about it! God is good, truth always win.
He is very likely not a brother in Christ.
James has all the characteristics of a false teacher. He has harmed thousands of people
Be very careful Azaelea. To judge a fellow brother and think you know if he is a believer is dangerous. God used him mightily for many years and brought His salvation to thousands through this brother. Pray for James and Christ’s church that the LORD would accomplish what HE and HE alone is allowing. Pray for those still there trying to care for the confused and hurting hearts. Lina – you were humble and owned more than most. You also restrained and could have said much more and didn’t. I also trust that you did seek wisdom from the Lord on what and how to speak into this. And you will not lose true friends and sisters in Christ.
It’s true, Anonymous, we have no right to predict the eternal destiny of even the worst of sinners, for God longs to show mercy and grant repentance to all. Yet Jesus minces no words when He tells us we ARE to judge teachers by their *fruits* and expose evildoers (and leads by example—see His very public chastisement of the hypocritical Scribes and Pharisees in the Gospels).
33 “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit. 34 You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? *For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart. 35 The good man brings out of his good treasure what is good; and the evil man brings out of his evil treasure what is evil.* 36 But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment. 37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”
(Matthew 12:33-37)
We have seen this very truth of Jesus’ teaching publicly demonstrated by Mancow and many other witnesses.
Read the commandment in 1 Timothy 5:19-20 on the correction of Elders who sin, so that other Elders will be afraid to continue sinning against the flock. There are dozens if not hundreds of witnesses against many Elders at Harvest all saying the same thing. The “fruit” of people at Harvest coming to Christ belongs to the Holy Spirit, not to JM. God has been known to use even a donkey and a false pagan prophet to speak His word.
The fruit by which JM is to be judged rather is that of his own true m.o. and manifest character, which have been revealed to speak not of the Holy Spirit of love, but rather have the love of money and power and the very reek of Hell about them! May God have mercy on his soul.
You do not know if she fasted or not, nor do you know if the Lord Himself brought her to this revelation. Do you not remember that God used His Chosen to reveal the sin of not only churches, in the New Testament, but also to Kings in Old Testament. Whatever is wrong in God’s eyes He will bring someone to reveal it.
It seems to me that they’ve had year’s to repent and make things right. Therefore Lina did what God moved her to do in His Boldness and Courage, being fear had silenced her.
Do not judge the timing, God’s timing is Always Perfect.
Nellie, Your comments are without sound knowledge of the depth of this… I am SO glad that Lina has allowed the grace of Christ to free her from the culture of fear that controls Harvest Bible Chapel, and I am impressed by her willingness to speak in such as grace-giving way that will speak freedom to others who are hurting from this. Further, Nellie, I am glad that you “missed out” on being a victim of the authoritarian rule that grew, without check, in the once fertile soil of a formerly great ministry.
Lina, a number of years ago I was reading one of your books while waiting for Gordon Z. to join me for lunch. I was pleasantly surprised to find that you know each other. He spoke highly of you, and since then, I have occasionally prayed for you regarding your time and experience at HBC. I thank you for your willingness to risk being misunderstood while offering your experience to help reduce the shame of others, who need a hand to hold, as they work through their own healing.
I pray your steps continue to be guided by our Lord!
I would ask you the same question? Have you sought the Lord in prayer and fasting?Exposing sin is not hurtful… then you would be against every prophet in the Bible…. it seems to me that people give more grace to the offender than the victim. She’s not the only one… there are many. So Grace is only for MacDonald and no one else… not the elders he excommunicated, not the numerous employees who were fired or kids who were expelled from HCA, not the pastor who was fired in FLORIDA and had his church taken away… I would ask you SERIOUSLY??!! Wake up and take some serious deep reflection… you follow a man not Jesus… that is extremely dangerous… my suggestion to you.., workout your salvation with fear and trembling my sister in Christ
Nellie,
Fear. Fear is why leaders did not speak up until now. Yet, with the growing numbers leaders, it is coming out, many followed along with James out of fear to personal, family, career damage. If you personally were not in a position to be damaged by James, do not judge those who were susceptible to the wrath damage of James. James wrath is powerful.
I agree with Nellie. As a former Muslim, I grew in my walk with GOD because Pastor James’ teachings from the GOD’s Word.
Since I know I am capable of the worst sin, I am choosing to show grace and praying fervently.
My father went through prostate cancer. After he was treated and had surgery he was totally different person: quick to get angry all the time, control freak, and mean….there are things that we don’t know. I am thankful for JESUS that used Pastor James in my life. Our GOD is an awesome GOD. I will be praying for you , too, Lina.
Because TRANSPARENCY is needed…and now ahe may be starting to feel safe. Again this is HER TRUTH!
Nellie, please don’t be taken in by putting people on a pedestal (very sad….) Christ alone is to be worshipped
Woah there Nellie! Do you think God approves of pastors who deliberately scam their congregation for years, use his name for money and abuse people for the Almighty Dollar?
Do you remember how Jesus acted towards the money changers and false shepherds?
These are the last days! No one seems to be able to discern right from wrong anymore. People need to be accountable for their actions. James said it many times himself, chose to sin,
chose to suffer. Do you see any fruit from him of what God speaks of? No, I don’t as well as many others. God has said that those who are give much is required.
This man is a smooth deceiver and believes his own lies. He is really great at it I give him that. But should never be a pastor again!
Thank you for sharing. My daughter was also at that service when they showed the video. Her first year at college and her first visit to Harvest RM. needless to say she did not go back and found a great church she was able to become a part of during her college years. I always wondered why you left but after reading The Elephants Debt I figured I knew why. When I asked questions at the Harvest I attended I was told to be careful what I read on the internet. Implying that the information on TED was lies. Unfortunately I don’t think the Harvest RM is the only Harvest with a culture of fear.
Lina, I know that you did not take writing this lightly, and that it was preceded by much prayer and asking for the Holy Spirit’s wisdom and guidance in order to strike a balance of truth and grace. God is faithful, and He is doing what needs to be done to protect His bride. We continue in prayer for all those affected – near and far. God is sovereign, He is the Healer, He is the Restorer, He is the Renewer, and He will continue to do what He is doing in order to bring about His will for His people. A worship song says “He gives and takes away, He gives and takes away, and still my heart will say – Blessed be the name of the LORD!”. Love you!
I’m far removed from this situation, but saddened by it nonetheless. I was so surprised to read that you were afraid because you seem like such a strong and confident person. I can’t imagine a culture in which you felt such fear. I’m so sorry, and I’m sorry for the comments here that are going to be painful for you. I will remember to pray for you and the fallout of this situation each time I see somethyfrom you come across my in box.
I don’t know you personally but appreciate all you continue to teach me and countless others. The Scripture that came to me as I read this is I Timothy 1:7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but one of power, love, and sound judgment.
I will be praying for you.
Also “ I Cor. 15:58 Therefore, my dear (sister) be steadfast,immovable,always excelling in the Lord’s work, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.”
Well said Lina. I share a lot of the same feelings.
Thank you Lina, So many of his followers would still want him as a preacher. I never understood why they saw him the way they do. Pastor James this and Pastor James that. He was a ruler of his churches. He stomped his questioners. Let this awaken and take down other church leaders that have similar goals. Can you imagine how God feels when he sees his churches ( all denominations, we are in this together). Thanks for finally being honest. P.S. When I started Bible studies Harvest I was given a booklet and videos on everything bad about the Catholic Church. I think that was his recruitment tactic. Love my bible sisters.
Good word, my sister. As painful as it is, all that has been hidden must be revealed. Yes, God has this in hand, but that doesn’t mean He won’t ask His children to do the hard work of calling out sin in unrepentant believers. Thank you for your courage.
All I have to say Lina is thank you! I attended Harvest for five years, and left five years ago. I don’t know why, except that I just really wasn’t getting the Word of God from the stage – and I do mean “stage“. The only thing I liked about that church was the worship, which was glorifying to the Lord. After that, I felt like my time was wasted. I also don’t know why it took me five years to leave, but now I’ve been at a true Bible preaching, Jesus exulting church, not too far from the RM campus. My current church I actually joined, unlike Harvest, and have been there five years and counting now. Is it perfect? No church is, because they are all filled with sinners like us. I have lived with fear in my life almost my entire life. It’s like I seek man‘s favor as well, rather than the Lords. If you have something to recommend I read that would help me in this area, Lina, I would appreciate it.
BTW, I’ve loved your blogs in the morning, but can’t read the Twitter ones because I am not on Twitter. That’s what happens when I get older chronologically!
2 Thumbs Way up to you my sister in Christ, for being open about your experience there, which more people than you know have also been through!
May the love of Jesus Christ and his peace flood over you this day!
You followed what God would have instructed you to handle this situation….you started by going to the leaders of the church for answers and none were given. Just because it’s a “church” building with leaders doesn’t mean that Christ is leading it. Not saying thete arent strong christians in leadership at this church but it does always seem that when pride gets in the way of leadership it hurts that person and everyone around them. How important it is to pray pray pray and check on our leaders also of their growth in Christ and what our church mission is and to stay biblical, not political but biblical. This is also why as a follower of Christ it is so important to know and learn Gods word so you see when something isn’t right. Praying for you for healing and for growth and strength during all of this. Praying for this church also that Gods Holy Spirit is cleaning/healing/humbling/teaching his people.
Thank you Lina,
I believe you spoke up now to show how far reaching the powerful words and actions of those in authority goes. Speaking the truth and not cowering in the corner.
God wins the war.
Press on in Truth with Grace and Peace.
God is sifting His church! I still would like to read the blog on tattoos.
I’m about to lead a teaching tomorrow night about the mark God placed on Cain after he killed his brother Abel. Scripture does not say what the mark was, but it was a mark that man knew as a sign to not to kill Cain, as it would end his life, and end the judgement that God had given Cain to live out his life with. Being part of Harvest, and hearing how the utmost leaders were tattooed with the Vertical Church logo, as I prepare the lesson, I can’t help but wonder about the tattoo on the bodies of those who accepted the “mark” of James as their alliance with the Vertical Church of James. Will those men now be known for their “mark” as sinful followers of James? Will this tattoo be their mark of shame?
Thanks for writing this, Lina. We attended Elgin from 2005 through 2008. Thankful we got left when we did. Amy
Thank you for being honest and speaking truth. You are absolutely right about the fear! Thankful for the freedom you have found and are willing to speak up.
Thank you Lina, for opening the door of your life so that we can understand your experience. As Pastor James has said in the past, truth and time go hand-in-hand. I believe that now IS an appropriate time to share your story. The collaboration of many witnesses should help the leadership at Harvest (or any church) know the depth of a problem. Thank you.
I think Nellie and others are genuine in their questions of why now and why kick him when he is down. For me, it is because it is time for truth. All of it. I also was silent about why my family left (also the week following the video). But, the truth is, I am ashamed to say, I should have left much sooner. My daughter had been bullied by both Luke and James, in the presence of other adults, several times over her years in the youth group and yet I did not leave. So much “good” was happening at Harvest, surely it must have God’s blessing. I feared offending people. I was wrong. So now, I tell the truth about what happened, and it isn’t only a Pastor James problem. That is why we keep talking. Because there are others that need to also be held responsible. They helped to create this culture of fear. I think the congregation who asks these questions should know that I pray for them. I pray for the leaders. I don’t take joy in this situation, but I rejoice in the truth.
Lina, thank you for your honesty. God loves his Church and we can trust he’ll do what is necessary to preserve it. I’m thankful you and so many others I know have left with dignity and after a bit of healing have jumped back into churches where they are serving the Lord with all their hearts using the gifts God has given them so faithfully. I’ve been blessed by your teaching and I’m wondering if I wouldn’t have heard your teaching as much had you stayed longer at Harvest. I’m thankful you followed the Lord’s leading in these stressful and difficult circumstances.
Thank you for sharing your story and for doing so in the right spirit. Truth is truth. MacDonald is not being kicked while he’s down. Rather, God is shaking the junk–all of our junk–out of His Church. Be blessed.
Hi Lina. Nice to hear from you again! I wondered if you had become a full time missionary and if that was why you quit writing.
I grew up in the Church of Christ. There the preacher has no real power at all. Basically he’s a figurehead who can be dismissed on the whim of any elder or his wife. The preacher has no support system to fall back on but must find a new church before the new hireling moves in. Stressful on him and his family.
The ungodly jockying for power and control is still an issue in all our churches. Not just Harvest Bible Chapel. This is–I believe–why the American church has lost its effectiveness. Our cold hearts lack love that shows the world we are His. Like the unsaved around us we fight for positions of prestige to lord it over one another.
This should not be! Let us pray God will send His Spirit upon us and cure us of this.
Thank you Lina! Your time at Harvest made a huge impact to my small group and strengthened my faith in Christ . It was your Study that helped me be obedient to God. Until recently, I was 8 year member of HBC and I feel so sad, confused, betrayed. I do know that my faith will not be shaken. Thank you for taking the time to nurture the HBC flock that Pastor James never cared about!
Lina,
Thank you for the courage and humility it takes to write a post like this. For you to step back and taken ownership of your piece in the large (very large) puzzle, is a humility and grace only Jesus can provide. Your mission and your ministry is beautiful and changing lives. Thank you for displaying what an honest and vocal Godly woman can look like. Blessings to you!
What is strange about your concern about your own fear is I have been of thee opinion that Pastor James must have been ruled by his own fear-fear of losing influence and the fear of losing “his” ministry. I think he forgot Whose ministry it was. Fear can lead to many sins.
Hello:
We don’t know each other, but I found this via Julie Roys’ Twitter. Thanks for writing it.
Have you ever read this piece on how sick systems keep people controlled? It’s by an unbeliever, but wow, is it eye-opening.
http://www.issendai.com/psychology/sick-systems.html
FEAR is a liar, pray for them and never let offense take you out, that was the enemy’s plan! You are courageous! Bless you!
Be blessed Lina! The Lord has used you mightily before, during and after your exit from the toxic leadership at Harvest. Thank you for teaching even in the midst of giving your testimony. It’s who you are!
I can only hope and pray that those that criticize you for speaking up now are MORE upset about the behavior of the leaders of the church! It’s difficult to understand how people can now know what they know and still only criticize the ones that feel compelled to now share their story.
What’s also sad is that ‘old’ witness accounts go to show how truly far reaching and how long this behavior has been going on. And for those that have not witnessed spiritual abuse, or worse yet experienced it personally, but are now hearing about it, this is your opportunity to ramp up your prayers for the Bride of Christ. Jesus called out hypocrisy in the religious leaders. It may not be warm and fuzzy but speaking truth, especially when compelled by the Spirit, is never wrong.
Those that haven’t gone through it ask “why would you speak these things?”
Those that have gone through it ask themselves, “should I speak up?”
Both sides require much prayer.
Thank you for speaking out, Lina! For years, I kept believing the deception fed to the congregation by the elders. Pastor James’ teaching seemed so Biblical. I knew he wasn’t perfect, but then, neither was I, I reasoned. Still, things seemed off. There would be major issues involving James, followed by a carefully worded “elder update” or a carefully scripted announcement in church. I thought something was “off” but had only my own suspicions to go on as we were told not to criticize. I feel angry that the people who were supposed to be watching over the congregation allowed this to go on. I feel foolish for allowing myself to be misled for so long. I feel like I can’t trust my own judgment any more. But your words affirmed what I suspected. Thank you for coming forward! Don’t listen to haters. You are brave and you did the right thing!
Thank you for sharing and speaking truth Lina. Those of us that have experienced spiritual abuse and church hurt personally can truly resonate with your story. My family attended a smaller Harvest church close to Elgin. Sadly, this cancer has spread to other churches that were once part of the fellowship. It was an extremely long and difficult decision to finally leave (we did our best to leave peacefully with the good of Christ’s church in mind) knowing very well that our reputations and many of our friendships we had there would be severely if not permanently damaged. Through it all, our relationship with Christ was strengthened all the more. We are thankful and humbled by His care and protection of our family. Continually praying for healing, reconciliation and restoration for His church.
My faith has been shaken by the situation at another Christian organization. Even more, the trauma of having those who had taught me so much about Jesus and showed me the way to Jesus’ healing suddenly take the side of the person who caused me to fear for my life- it’s taken a long time to move forward. So long that lawyers all wonder why I waited so “long”- but trauma takes time to recover from. In our case we have been pulled away from our church as well because of how we have been treated for our daughter’s actions. It’s hard. It takes a long time. It’s messy. I’ve tried to cover everything in prayer but I don’t feel God right now. It’s hard – no impossible- to do everything with the “right” motivation. I follow Jesus in His Strength the best I can in the light He has given me.
Sarah, I am so sorry for whatever happened to you. Something happened to us some years ago and a number of people turned against us because of lies, etc. Several years went by and one family apologized to us as did another man. The Lord knows and he keeps the ‘books.’
Also, for 2 years I felt my prayers didn’t get past the ceiling. There were several close family deaths, lost our home, business and more. I chose to believe the Bible and God’s promises.
Looking back over my life I see how all things have led to today. People meant evil but God works it out for our good. I’m praying for you.
Dear Lina,
Thank you for your honesty and your explanation. While I am personally removed from the situation, my brother and sister-in-law attend a Harvest Church and there has been a lot of pain through all of this. I continue to pray for the people this has affected, the elders and pastors, and that the darkness will be continually exposed to the light. May God be glorified through this. Your sister in Christ in Auburn, Indiana.
Thank you for this. We attended Harvest for 16 years before we left little over 4 years ago. The culture of fear is real, soo much so I don’t feel comfortable giving my name as some will know me.
I was recovering from the deep wounds and hurts from when we left when this all came rushing back in and opening old wounds. God is using this to grow me as he does in all trials, so for that I’m grateful. It helps to be able to talk about it instead of feeling like you have to hide it, or just “deal with it”.
God IS in control and knows what he is doing.
Thank you again
Thank you for your honest post. I do not believe your timing should be questioned. Wounds take a great deal of time to heal and it’s appropriate to share them and warn others to avoid similar church abuse. This problem is not isolated to Harvest. A friend sent a link showing a video of a former Willow pastor’s return to that church to speak after leaving a decade ago for similar reasons as you left Harvest. His sermon provides good reasons for why we need to shine light on these abuses. He claimed he would never return to Willow until things had changed and the time was right. He went recently, saying the time had come.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISjXhWUyGi0&list=PLud2nIxx0IAT58I8QPBdfrOz8bFMQQcd6&index=4&t=0s
Such a good post Lina. I keep coming back to this part and I identify so much with this part.
“By the time I left, I had discovered something dark about myself: I was a woman/person ruled by fear. I didn’t want to upset James. I didn’t want to risk any negative impacts on my own growing ministry. My first two books were scheduled to be released smack in the middle of that summer, and I didn’t want to impact their potential – not to mention that James had agreed to write the forward on my first book.”
I can think of hundreds of small things, and some rather large ones, that I’ve compromised myself for. It, honestly, has been the biggest source of my own sin and self inflicted suffering. I can’t imagine a person alive who couldn’t look at their life and say the same thing in some area of their dealings with people. Those are things we don’t talk about often enough about. I’d like to think it’s the fear of man spoken about in the Bible but I think it often goes beyond that. Thanks for being so honest.
Oh my how that resonated with me and the experiences my beloved and I have had with churches in the UK. We too would pray and fast and seek the Lord as to what it was we could have done wrong as not one person from the church we had attended for years cared to find out where we were at. In one fellowship people were actually warned to have nothing to do with us, and yet all we had done, in each instance was to ask questions. Even now, many years later, the enemy could still, if I let him, get me questioning my motives and trying to persuade me I was in the wrong not the ‘shepherds’. We have now been without a fellowship for nearly a year (we are missionaries in Europe) because I do not want to join a happy clappy crowd who would not know the Word of God were it to bite them nor do I want to join a fellowship where the Word is extremely well known but there is no life, no joy. Nor do I want to be part of a fellowship where the whole counsel of God is not taught nor eschatology ever mentioned. And where I live that mostly rules out every English speaking church there is!
[…] Why I left Harvest Bible Chapel… […]
It’s ironic that you should post this today. We are stunned at the response of our pastor and a ministry leader who have declined to meet us as God directs us in Matthew 18. They are not calmly declining either. Although I do not want to be a part of this church any more, I strongly feel that God is directing me to continue to obey his direction in this scripture and take their disobedience to another level. It’s so very difficult but This is God’s battle and I only need to be obedient not the “fixer”. I appreciate your voice.
A friend sent me a link to sermon about this yesterday: https://radical.net/sermon/kingdom-community/
Hi “Sally,”
I’ve been where you’re at, believing that it’s godly to keep trying to work it out, like family does. At my former church, I reached the point where I couldn’t, in good conscience, stay because of the amount of bull-headed spiritual abuse that was going on combined with covering-up of sexual abuse. I believe my continued presence would’ve required me to openly protest in every Sunday service because to remain silent through the service would’ve done injustice to the victims and passively shown support for the authoritarian leaders who refused to repent. Abusers groom their community and a spiritually abusive church grooms its members to not rock the boat, to gaslight themselves, and to leave quietly if they should ever refuse to submit to abuse. Leaving spiritual abuse is okay, you can’t be expected to change it while you’re in the midst of it. You have to leave before you can see clearly.
Thanks for sharing Lina. With so much gaslighting going on and public take-downs of those who would speak truth to power, and your investment in the church industrial complex, I can imagine how difficult it would’ve been to speak out publicly at the time of your leaving. I can see you have regret for not having the courage to do it then but you’re working to make up for it by speaking now. Others have gone before you in challenging HBC to help pave the way and have paid the consequences for their courage. Thank you for adding your voice to the now chorus of voices calling for a time of judgment and reform.
Lina, to see how the Lord has blessed your ministry these past few years is absolutely amazing! No matter what everyone else says, it does take courage to say something. Thanks for speaking up!
I too had been a part of HBC both as a staff member and member of the church and was there in total over 15 years. When I left my job I stayed at HBC for about another year before leaving entirely. I simply could not reconcile the lies that were shared from the pulpit with the truths that I knew regarding issues in the church. And the lies weren’t just shared by James. Others lied to me directly for selfish gain.
So I’ll never forget the day I got up from my seat in a service, walked out, and never looked back. Same as your departure, not a single person reached out to see how I was doing once I left my job. No one asked why I quit attending after 15 years. One person (not from Harvest) asked if I needed to call the church to “cancel” my membership. My response, “Why? It doesn’t mean anything.”
I am thankful that timing of other circumstances in my life led me to a new city to grow and find a faithful, healthy, growing, biblical church community. Not everyone is so blessed, and for those of you who have left HBC and have had to find a new local church, there are healthy ones out there. I have found that churches “built” through a single person’s vision are dangerous. If they built it, it is theirs to destroy. Driscoll, now MacDonald. Find a church with great accountability. We are all human, myself included. Thank goodness God is still God!
I do pray that the entire senior leadership staff and elders who have participated in sheltering the truth for their own gain would be called out by the Lord. The problem definitely doesn’t end with James. If hearing voices together of those who have truth helps, then now is the time to speak. Voices heard together make a difference. Pray for the church and the people! Thanks again, Lina, for being courageous in the midst of these difficult days.
Thank you for your thoughts and strong, encouraging words. I left Harvest about a year before you did, and I also stayed, for the most part, silent out of the same fear you described. This was encouraging to read and I hope others take it to heart.
I’d be interested in reading you blog on tattoos.
Lina, thank you for your post, and thank you for your honesty and transparency. I miss that about you. I’m one of the people who asked you to share why you left. Thank you for your courage and for responding. It never dawned on me that it would open you up to attack. I’ll let the others fight that fight today.
For me, I would like to apologize for not reaching out to you when I finally realized that you had left HBC. I didn’t know you personally, but was a part of and benefited from the many programs that you offered through women’s ministry. I guess I felt like one of the “peons” of Harvest, and that me reaching out wouldn’t matter, since I was not a part of the inner circle or personally close to you. I’m not sure what is going on with me honestly. It never dawned on me that no one from HBC would reach out. But that’s how it happens at Harvest, right? People in leadership are there one day, and then poof! They’re gone. No one knows why. Often no explanation given, and the band plays on. I assumed that you had simply moved on to bigger and better things. I also assumed that because of the size of Harvest, those closest to you would reach out. I won’t make that mistake again.
So often, you would open your home to us. For me, I live with the regret of not taking advantage of the opportunity to come over and get to know you. I loved that about you. Your realness. Your sincere desire to move us further in our relationship with Jesus Christ. Your willingness to sit down over a cup of coffee in your home with women of God and get real about our hurts, our fears, our dreams, or whatever is going on in our lives. Maybe it’s because you’re a doctor and have such a desire to see people healed. It permeates through the woman that you are. This scandal that we’re going through has really rocked my world. Sitting in the pews, I could not see how deep “the cancer” was at HBC. Yes, I was there for ex-communication video. I was mortified. I was there when Ted launched. Horrified. And yet, I stayed. Somehow I thought 2500+ members walking out would send the message. It didn’t. I’m not on FB, so I didn’t see your post where you extended an invitation to us to meet with you again. If you ever make that offer again, I’ll be there, but please post on Twitter. 🙂 I’m also going to sign up for LWP. I just want you to know that what you did at HBC mattered, and your presence is greatly missed. Thank you for sharing!
Wait……
You wrote a blog about how an increase in tattoos was in some way related to a decline in holiness and you were a leader in the church?
Maybe you were called in front of the elders and asked to rewrite because thats horrendous theology and an awful way to be an ambassador for the Gospel.
This is not an endorsement of the culture at Harvest because it’s total trash, but you can’t blame them for you bad theology choices.
Lina’s post is still available on other mediums, I imagine if she wanted to link it she would have. I do have to laugh though. I remember when I saw the tattoo that James got and I remembered the line from The Davinci Code about the Chevron symbol. It was both true in a sense and funny. #justsaying #carryon
You’d have to read the blog. I’m not sure it is saying tatoos are a sign of a decline in holiness, but the overall impression is any Christian who gets a tatoo wants to be “cool” and nothing about Jesus or the Gospel is “cool”. I am a 60 year old grandfather who wants to get a tatoo around my ankle of all six of my grandchildren’s names. It would be endearing to me and honoring to them. I don’t really care what someone else thinks. And I find it odd that someone would have an opinion on that. Or share it. But, that’s my opinion. 😉
Right. We left Harvest for, among other reasons, the bad theology and overall silliness of the women’s ministry.
Lina,
Great article.
Be encouraged. The Lord will use it.
Blessings to you and your family.
PS. You were right about the tattoos!
Lina, My wife and I also left our church several years ago. Both of us were involved in many forms of leadership and had invested for many years in the outreach of the church and all of its fellowship. When we left, after having posted a letter to the elders, not a single person called us to see how we were doing. Not one. Even people who were very close to us turned silent. It wasn’t that we saw corruption in our church. We just determined to treat the circumstances as a loving God giving us a different direction. (It would’ve done no good to tell them how they erred when previous months didn’t get it done.)
I wonder if this is an area where you’d feel free to minister; where people leave the church and are forgotten.
Thank you for your openness and sharing!
Lina,
Thank you for your vulnerability. It is important to bring light to this matter, help yourself and others heal and put a new song of praise and trust in Our God.
Lina,
I have always wondered why? You too felt you had to leave Harvest and what was your point of conviction on having to leave the Church ,that we all sacrificed so much for! Why if it wasn’t really a real sinful mess would so many in leadership just exit and give up what was a big part of our lives and our kids lives? In good conscience we walked away too knowing it was the right thing before God.So now I get your story, you were a favorite of Kathy and James so I am sure to take a stand against the injustice at Harvest was not at all an easy decision.So many other godly people got pushed out for speaking up about the entitlement and harshness of James and other Pastors and Elders.So very sad somewhere along the way they just forgot they are supposed to be shepherds and servant and not the guards defending the many sin issues at Harvest. You are being bold and telling the truth and just wanted to encourage you.I always loved your passion for God’s Word and pray God’s blessing as you stand strong Him! Vicki Stevenson
I have not read your blogs for some time but the Holy Spirit caused me to stop and read this post. Thank you Yahweh. I have had similar experiences at The Chapel . Most of my friends as well. The Spirit has shown me that Church, the Body of called out believers are those Christians you meet with. I have or attend 3 or more small groups a week now and feel alive. I no longer help lead a larger men’s ministry. But that does not matter. I believe Yahweh has me where He wants me. This journey has taken me several years. Hang in there. I’m praying for you. Be blessed dear Sister.
In Him,
Ross
Ross Blomberg,
I had a bad experience at the Chapel myself.
Can you please contact me from the Contact button on my web page here?
see My Dream Church https://sites.google.com/site/mydreamchurch/
Anil Philip
Lina, this took courage and I’m glad you said it. I struggle with the fear of man myself.
Thank you for this post. You are joined with so many ex harvesters that were wounded deeply by what became a toxic culture at HBC. Each former leader that speaks out helps us heal and validates our experience. I am grateful for your courage. And I do want to state that MANY of us have made every effort to address the problems prior to leaving. It was simply not possible. Jackie Alfirevic HBC mothership (1992-2011)
Lina,
Thank You for writing your blog. We are currently experiencing similar tragedy at HBC-Naples. Please pray for all of the member/attendees who are struggling, as we are grieving a loss of our church base and have felt the wrath, unfortunately.
Rita, be encouraged. Many many of us are praying for all of you in Naples.
Oh Lina,
My precious, from a far, friend who I have watched since your first speaking engagement at Harvest. I have only read the first few paragraphs of your post and needed to stop there to send this reply. Based on just the first few paragraphs, I hear you! You are speaking the minds of the many who did not stand up to James as they felt at the time, based on fear of public shame, and damage to career, to stick their heads in the sand and not speak up.
I’ve been asked, what would I do if I were still on staff. In my lowly position, I have said, like others, I would have put my head in the sand and continued to do the job God gifted me to do in the interest of the body.
I applaud you for your courage to leave the church and let the fall out damage by James to you as a person and your career ministry, to be in God’s hands.
I pray others in leadership read your post, check their hearts, and follow suit.
As an encouragement, from day 1, as you began your faith walk ministry, starting a “Women of Power teaching ministry at Harvest, I have watched your character. You personify a strong, fast talking, intelligent woman, which is a gift by way of your heritage. And, at the same time, I know you to be a humble woman, easily impacted by negative, feedback. You take feed back to heart and you use it as growth points. Seeing this in your personality it is understandable to me that at first you revered James correction and fell into compliance.
I am so inspired to see you today. A woman who is full of fun loving life. Free of James’ fear. Doing ministry you love. You are a blessing to many in need. I praise your decision to own your ministry outside of James.
Oh Lina,
How you hit the nail on the head! You said, “out of fear, I complied. I didn’t want to be rebellious against authority. I also managed to write an apology to James for the pain I had caused him. I regret staying at Harvest after that meeting with the elders. I should have left that week, but I was too afraid to cause damage to Jesus and His kingdom and the women I was leading at that time.”
– out of fear you complied
– you felt through James’ harvest mentality, you would be rebellious against authority if you stood up
– you “managed” (a wording that says, you knew it was not right, but did so out of self protection) and humility because as Mancow is now saying, James had alligator tears of his hurt to make you feel guilty.
– Fear that your leaving would damage those you ministered to. Torn between right and wrong.
I’m replying after reading just your first few paragraphs.
Addressing this following statement from you, “By the time I left, I had discovered something dark about myself: I was a woman ruled by fear. I didn’t want to upset James. I didn’t want to risk any negative impacts on my own growing ministry.”
– I was a woman ruled by fear. (images of wife beating and mental control come to mind)
– (My) fear was in upsetting James
– I didn’t want James as an enemy, as being on the “inside” knowing and seeing how he could and would destroy others in ministry if they challenged him.
When I talk to people about this, they are quick to disqualify anyone who went along with James, who did not stand up to him. I was asked what I would do if I were still on staff through the last 2 years. I have replied, I would have probably, as most have done, put my head in the sand and carried on doing the work God gave me to do.
– James is (was) a powerful force which could and did destroy people with his power and influence.
I am now going to read the rest of your post. I’m sure I will find much more to comment on, but I hope to leave it at that as an encouragement to you.
From your first speaking engagement at Harvest, I have watched your ministry(ies) and have see you be a strong fast speaking, outgoing woman, by ethnic background, yet a humble servant of Christ who feels deeply the impact of wrongfulness. You are open to correction, feeling hurt when it comes. James could have easily prayed
[…] There are a couple of other reads that came to my attention this evening related to Harvest Bible Chapel that I wanted to make people aware. The first one is in the magazine Relevant and looks at the allegations of Anne Green being inappropriately touched by James MacDonald. You can read that article here. Also another story emerged on why another person left Harvest Bible Chapel. Lina Abujamra who once was the Women’s Ministry Director at Rolling Meadows explained how she ran afoul of the elders and why she left in the course of time. You can read that story right here. […]
Dude, what are you doing?
Lost me at the private jet shared with Bill Hibel
I am no one special here. I never worked at Harvest under Pastor James, I never wrote a book, I never had any altercation with Pastor James, and never had a complaint about him.
I have been attending Harvest and listening and learning from Pastor James’ sermons for almost 10 years; I have witnessed the sweet joy of my husband coming to Christ because of God using Pastor James mightily; and I have been blessed beyond measure by the positive impact Harvest, its ministries, and especially its PEOPLE have had upon my relationship with God, my Harvest friends and family, my life, and my marriage.
These being the facts of my simple, uncomplicated, and naive experience as an attendee and member of Harvest, the last several weeks of revelations, discoveries, denial, anger, grief, victims, conjecture, embarrassment, hurt, stories, gossip, cover-ups, accusations, defensiveness, lawsuits, maliciousness, divisiveness, blame, threats, and even some name-calling … as of late I have begun to realize that those of us who are just the congregation, the blessed and appreciative recipients of the God-given talents of all those involved in running and ministering Harvest, we are now in the painful position reminiscent of children involved in the divorce of parents, both(ALL!) who we really love.
Everything that is painful for everyone and anyone has been talked about endlessly for weeks. Everybody and anyone has an opinion about what should happen to and for ‘Harvest’ – whether this means the self-identified victims, or the buildings, or the leftover and future leadership – well, everyone is entitled to an opinion about everyone and everything.
But wait… who is that lurking around the edges, his deeds the center of everyone’s interest in our church right now, salivating and gleeful that divisiveness and sin is healthy within the body of Christ? Did you know that Satan and his minions come to Harvest?
Everything is being talked about at great lengths regarding Harvest except for Who the body of Christ should be praying to, talking about and quoting. What should we be planning for, praying for, and what did Jesus teach about? Humility, repentance, confession, forgiveness, reconciliation, mercy, love, compassion, healing, serious prayer and so much more for and by everyone should be given top priorities on our agendas soon if not now. But are they?
Christians! How long before we wake up and show the world how Christians are not only different from the world but we are not of the world! Show how we come together as one in the body of Christ! When one part of the body hurts, we all hurt! We repent, forgive and are reconciled; we do not get even, hold grudges, refuse to forgive, or destroy innocent bystanders caught in the wake of it all.
How long will we wait to begin the healing process within ourselves and between each other?
Start praying to the Lord for healing. Reflect about yourself and what steps you need to take to be healed and then to help others heal.
Start praying for Jesus to heal the entire body of which He Alone is the Head. Pray and console those whose faith has weakened from this. Pray for all the lost and unsaved who are not hearing the Gospel and our testimonies right now from our lips because sin has been made the main thing. Come together at part of the body of Christ called Harvest Bible Chapel and pray that God’s will – not ours – be done. Put faith in God’s justice and judgement upon all, now that sin has been exposed. And come together in prayer, fasting and humility before Jesus that He enables us to be the people He died for.
In His Name and in His love…
Kristy
Oh Kristy, Thank you so much for expressing exactly what I am feeling—such sorrow, such heartbreaking sorrow. I, like you, am so thankful for how God has worked in me and my family through the ministries at Harvest—including the teaching and selfless service of Lina, and so many others (some who have left, and some who chose to stay). The sin that has taken place does not negate the awesome work that God has done, and it pains my heart to hear people act as if it does. I am staying because with all the faults in the organization, the people of Harvest are my family. It’s so fitting that you likened the pain at Harvest to the pain of a divorce. I love Dr. Dobson’s admonition that while it is tempting to want to get out of a painful situation, often the only way out is through. I choose to stay through this pain because, for me, leaving would create a wound that would never really heal. I stay with confidence that God will not be mocked, he knows the perfect balance of justice and mercy, he will redeem this pain and we will witness HIS power in HIS church. He is doing a new thing, and I will stand with my brothers and sisters in Christ and praise his Holy name through it all.
perfect response and reminiscent of what scripture teaches. Jesus desires mercy and not sacrifice. This post drips of mercy.
I do not think the solution is replacing the pastor and associates with a new administration. It seems to have so many cracks in the structure. What would Jesus do? Opt out of mega church? Opt out of televised preaching? Don’t bad rap other churches? Rotate positions? When is God pleased at his church? The church and its people helped create Pastor James He is not the only one involved it was a group effort. Thoughts from a person looking in. Praying for a healing and refocus of all Gods churches
Mary,
For a different church model, see My Dream Church https://sites.google.com/site/mydreamchurch/
“God is purifying His Church.” So beautiful.
Lina,
At this point, I’m not sure what else your thread can accomplish. I hope that you are recovering well, for you have added a vital piece of information. When you started, you (and others) mentioned the cult of personality that James benefitted from. That is at the root of a serious problem that the Church hardly touches. That is, so many think that the church is the “pastor’s ministry” and they don’t adequately facilitate the ministry of believers. It seems that was true at Harvest, just as it is at many local churches. This is hardly a “local” issue in the Western church.
The question is, how many pastors/leaders are actually GIVING AWAY the ministry and equipping others for it?
If Harvest and James can answer that, without focusing merely upon what “they” do, it would be helpful. Otherwise, the church must answer the same question, for that is one of the “majors” that Jesus gave us.
Dear Lina,
God is a for-others being – he can not lie, therefore, he can not be for Himself. He’s a lemonade maker. Even before the Garden of Eden seduction, he foresaw the need for “The Lamb slain before the foundation of the world.” Your leaving (however late you feel it was) – was His provision for others, much like Joseph sent ahead to Egypt years ahead of his brothers and father. Your staying as long as you did – part of the clarity and power you’ve experienced in communicating what you’ve seen.
Fear is dead life – a remnant of Satan. Faith is Christ living. “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, for the law of the spirit of life (in Christ Jesus) has set me free from the law of sin and death.”
Congratulations on your freedom, Lina! Where there is no vision – and freedom – the people perish. I love who you are and what you do. “I see Jesus in you”…from one member of the Body to another.
You are loved. The people of the church are those we feel we can trust and love. Therefore, we are at our most open to hurt. Don’t stop trusting or loving.
I am sorry for the pain.
Thank you, Lina. I’ve always appreciated your candor and honesty, and I think the Lord has gifted you with a strong sense of discernment. You’ve blessed me when I heard you speak at a Harvest Women’s event about 10 yrs ago, through your radio ministry and at an event you spoke at last year.
I really think you hit the nail on the head when you said you realized something dark about yourself, that you had been a woman ruled by fear…and I could identify with what you said since I had been that woman too. Fear is a stupid liar and I praise God that He’s given us a spirit of a sound mind and Love!!!
Fear is what has been under all this, I would not be surprised if there is some fear in James’s heart that is the root cause of his sins here.
Move on in that Spirit of Love!
“You are Loved” – I think I am gonna throw up. Harvest used that phrase to manipulate the congregation.
[…] “While only a handful showed up, the range of their pain was wide. Some women were still in the middle of the trauma and were still currently attending Harvest. Others had old wounds that had resurfaced and were hurting, having never felt closure to their stories,” Abujamra, a Bible teacher and Moody Radio host, wrote on her blog. […]
[…] “While only a handful showed up, the range of their pain was wide. Some women were still in the middle of the trauma and were still currently attending Harvest. Others had old wounds that had resurfaced and were hurting, having never felt closure to their stories,” Abujamra, a Bible teacher and Moody Radio host, wrote on her blog. […]
[…] “While only a handful showed up, the range of their pain was wide. Some women were still in the middle of the trauma and were still currently attending Harvest. Others had old wounds that had resurfaced and were hurting, having never felt closure to their stories,” Abujamra, a Bible teacher and Moody Radio host, wrote on her blog. […]
[…] “While only a handful showed up, the range of their pain was wide. Some women were still in the middle of the trauma and were still currently attending Harvest. Others had old wounds that had resurfaced and were hurting, having never felt closure to their stories,” Abujamra, a Bible teacher and Moody Radio host, wrote on her blog. […]
[…] “While only a handful showed up, the range of their pain was wide. Some women were still in the middle of the trauma and were still currently attending Harvest. Others had old wounds that had resurfaced and were hurting, having never felt closure to their stories,” Abujamra, a Bible teacher and Moody Radio host, wrote on her blog. […]
[…] “While only a handful showed up, the range of their pain was wide. Some women were still in the middle of the trauma and were still currently attending Harvest. Others had old wounds that had resurfaced and were hurting, having never felt closure to their stories,” Abujamra, a Bible teacher and Moody Radio host, wrote on her blog. […]
I have multiple thoughts….
1.) I have always wondered why you left Lina but didn’t know you personally to ask. I was just starting out at Harvest in September of 2011. New to Harvest and my faith in Christ, I didn’t know what was going on and still kinda of unclear of all the details. I have my own hurt of how certain situations were handled with me through the 20s ministry… Then soon after that, the 30s ministry, production ministry and even the women’s ministry on multiple occasions. There are people there I thought were my friend and as soon as my life takes a left turn and happens out of order (first came baby then came marriage and then another baby) I get ousted out and judged and hurt. Still.
2.) Now that all MacDonald men are gone and the elder board has been cut down to 9 men until a brand spanking new group of men are approved of, I am curious to see where this train goes. My mom, who doesn’t attend HBC, says that the church is going to die because James was the bread and butter. I pray she’s wrong.
Harvest woman’s Tuesday bible study group has not studied a book of the Bible in a couple of years. The resources are pulpit curriculum and bible words to talk about. Your studies are strong biblical studies. Hoping you come back and teach a book of the Bible.
Lina,
I met you when you spoke at Harvest Davenport’s women’s ministry retreat and events many years ago and was challenged and inspired by your teaching. I want to thank you for having the courage to add your testimony to the voices of those who have been abused by HBC. The culture of fear, intimidation, and secrecy has poisoned not just Rolling Meadows and its campuses, but also trickled down through the fellowship. I left HBC Davenport 4 years ago because of the spiritual abuse that is happening there as well. The congregation has been deceived, lied to, and hounded to give sacrificially, all the while the senior pastor has been making hundreds of thousands of dollars. The elders were given a paper that laid out their duties, that mostly consisted of protecting, encouraging, and blessing the senior pastor. The word of God and the flock were only mentioned at the end of the long list. After telling us that the elder board always made every decision by full consent, we learned that the former head of the elder board found out about major church initiatives from his seat in the congregation. And these things are only the tip of the iceberg. The abuse I suffered first hand and working through the realizations and implications of that abuse have been traumatic. I, too, have friends who have never once asked how I am or why I left. Others have asked, but immediately defend the senior pastor and church. I lost the bulk of my community virtually overnight. The flock are the casualties in all of this. We are wounded and grieving. Thank you for opening up your home so that hurting people could come together and share. Perhaps we can do something like that here in Davenport, too. I’m grateful that the sin of James and the elders/staff who allowed his tyranny to prosper is finally coming to light, so that the abuse can come to an end. I hope that the cleansing and purification will come to Davenport as well. May God bless you for speaking truth and standing in the gap for those of us who don’t have the circle of influence that you have.
Hi Hurting in Davenport,
Why not start a different type of church that is not pastor directed?
Please see my link.
Churches should switch to a different model that is biblically aligned.
see My Dream Church https://sites.google.com/site/mydreamchurch/
The current model for pastor directed churches says that the senior pastor is the priest – this is Old Testament.
The New Testament model that churches should follow, says Every Believer is a Priest.
1. Structure: the structure of My Dream Church is based on the New Testament ‘Body Of Christ’
model and not on the Old Testament hierarchical model.
2. Anointing: Every believer is a priest in the new covenant.
3. Biblical: submission to the Word in My Dream Church will be at a higher level
than submission to leaders
4. Leaders should have secular jobs:
5. Finances: Giving not Tithing. Transparency in finances
6. Praise and Worship is congregational:
7. Looking sideways (practical love):
8. Women are not silenced:
This model is not original and is old – but it is appropriate for the megachurch and also for the persecuted church.
Churches should switch to a different model that is biblically aligned.
see My Dream Church https://sites.google.com/site/mydreamchurch/
The current model for pastor directed churches says that the senior pastor is the priest – this is Old Testament.
The New Testament model that churches should follow, says Every Believer is a Priest.
1. Structure: the structure of My Dream Church is based on the New Testament ‘Body Of Christ’
model and not on the Old Testament hierarchical model.
2. Anointing: Every believer is a priest in the new covenant.
3. Biblical: submission to the Word in My Dream Church will be at a higher level
than submission to leaders
4. Leaders should have secular jobs:
5. Finances: Giving not Tithing. Transparency in finances
6. Praise and Worship is congregational:
7. Looking sideways (practical love):
8. Women are not silenced:
This model is not original and is old – but it is appropriate for the megachurch and also for the persecuted church.
I love this idea! I have been looking for a church like this for years. I have 3 small groups now that are like this but we lack music.
Ross,
I am delighted to hear that. Why do you say you have a lack of music?. Did you see the link to my web page. It describes participative worship that’s all the music you need. Of course people can join in with instruments too.
No unfortunately I have not seen your web page. Could you provide me with a link please. I do have cds and dvd of contemporary Christian artists. However, 2 of the groups meet in Panera Bread.
Thank you for your response.
Ross
Ross,
The link was in my post above. see My Dream Church https://sites.google.com/site/mydreamchurch/
I would love to chat and learn more of what you are doing.
The web page has a Contact button on the bottom and we can email.
thanks,
Anil
@Ross, Were you able to access it? Otherwise If you share your email address I will email you.
The woman’s bible study lead by two women who referenced Pastor James constantly are still in charge. In the past we were to study pulpit curriculum and bible vocabulary. Excited for the new study, hoping One of your teachings would be chosen. Unhappy to see you did not make the approved list. Go figure..Disappointed, Searching for a new study close by. My last complaint.
Prevent these types of money exchange corporations,
and stay glued to founded and genuine monetary purchase services.
Good for you and speaking up. Too many of these large churches have lost track of what their true purpose is. But I lived this in the late 70s and early 80s the scandals of the then big preachers they fell down hard as well. James biggest issue was his condemnation of other preachers, he never mentioned them by name he knew better, but I knew who he was talking about. Once a preacher condemns other, that is the sign that he is trying to avert attention from what he is doing. He better thank God for Grace and cause he is going to need it. But the biggest lesson is people need to stop looking at preachers as though they are perfect, but God know they aren’t and they need people on their necks to keep them honest. When a person is afraid of the reaction of their pastor or preacher it is time to move on. I hate to be James because God judges leadership harsher than the “regular” sinner.
It is a really strange thing when persecution comes from the pastor and elders.
It was not supposed to be that way.
Persecution is supposed to come from the world with the devil behind it, as Jesus said.
I too have had similar experiences in another church (The Chapel).
When this happens, there is tremendous spiritual and emotional wounding.
Church is a small community. Typical gossips and power struggles are only the surface. It all is about money to pay taxes and building and salaries. Just pray in a prayer closet to be still in the presence of Jesus. Prayer works as we understand to be HIS humble servants. This is why Jesus did not come to this present church environment.
Just how historically reliable are the Gospels and Acts if even prominent evangelical and conservative Protestant Bible scholars believe that fictional stories may exist in these books? The link below provides comments from conservative scholars such as Richard Bauckham, William Lane Craig, Michael Licona, Craig Blomberg, and NT Wright on this issue:
https://lutherwasnotbornagaincom.wordpress.com/2019/05/23/bombshell-how-historically-reliable-are-the-gospels-if-even-conservative-bible-scholars-believe-they-may-contain-fictional-stories/
first Bill Hybels. now James McDonald. maybe it’s time for all of us to wake up. superstar pastors are always ,inevitably, trouble. who’s fault is this? is it the pastors doing? or is it the congregations fault for being weak and gullible?
Isn’t this just what the enemy of our souls would want? Division and to take a part a ministry that was reaching and teaching people all over the world. Our enemy loves this. I am saddened by it. My heart breaks for the ones who will walk away from church and walk away from God. My heart breaks for the people that have been hurt by this on both sides. Quit pointing fingers, justifying why and stirring the pot. No one wins here-except our enemy.
@Donna Is it possible that it is God Himself who is exposing these misdeeds? Have you not read these passages?
1 Timothy 5:20: But those elders who are sinning you are to reprove before everyone, so that the others may take warning.
Ezekiel 22:27: Her princes [leaders] within her are like wolves tearing the prey, by shedding blood and destroying lives in order to get dishonest gain.
Matthew 7:15: Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
I never attended HBC except for the one time when we visited several years ago and had to sit out in the foyer as the music was blasted out too loud.
It is a shame to Christianity what is happening here. My coworker who was Catholic and going through a painful divorce, was led to Christ by me. Then God led him to Harvest Bible Chapel. Now he is disillusioned and wants to go back to Catholicism. He stopped going to any church and says he has lost faith in everything. He says he gave about $1K in these 6 months, and regrets it. He is angry that they keep on sending texts and emails asking for money.
I believe this is God working to expose sin just as Jesus warned Luke 12:2-3
“There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, and nothing hidden that will not be made known. What you have spoken in the dark will be heard in the daylight, and what you have whispered in the inner rooms will be proclaimed from the housetops.”
Well said. There’s a difference between “stirring the pot” and exposing false teachers as the Scriptures instruct us to do. Both can be messy, but in the latter case, responsibility for that mess must be laid squarely at the feet of the abusive Elders who are sinning, not at the feet of Christ’s “little ones”, the oppressed members of Christ’s flock, who are being caused to stumble, nor at the feet of those attempting to triage the wounded and sound a warning to others who are in danger of being
wounded by wolves in sheep’s clothing.
It’s been over a year and a lot has changed at Harvest and a lot sill needs to change.
What I have realized is the weakness and defeatism of so-called Christians who immediately abandon their Church when trouble comes its way.
Thank God the early Christians stood firm and did not run away from troubles.
Today’s “Christians” are weak and show Satan how powerful he is when their own Church is faced with trouble.
Thank you, Lord, for Ephesians 6:13:
“Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.”
And even JMac was right when he quoted 1 Corinthians 16:13:
“Be on the alert, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.”
I’m glad I have stood firm. What blessings are flowing at Harvest for those who stand firm!
smh
What does the Bible say about debt? As of November, 2021, HBC is $34,000,000 in debt.
Don’t you think this influences decisions made by the leaders, both now and before?
That is just so day to know that people are leaving churches. That is why I really rally for our black preacher and pastors like Keion Henderson, https://www.keionhenderson.com/about-us/ ! I hope they succeed in bringing people back to the church!